Art is not a hobby interview with Phoebe Nelson
Designer, Muralist & Founder of Pandr, SD
From lettering meetups in San Diego to painting large-scale murals across the country, Phoebe Nelson’s journey is a masterclass in creativity, persistence, and building something from the ground up. As a multidisciplinary artist and entrepreneur, Phoebe has carved out her own lane, blending bold design with community impact.
In this interview, she opens up about her path from art school to founding Pandr, how she approaches pricing and growth, the value of social media, and why your work can be your business. Whether you're a student, freelancer, or creative entrepreneur, Phoebe’s story is full of practical advice and inspiration.
Q: Can you take me back to the beginning of your creative journey?
I was always that creative kid so I knew I wanted to be an artist. Not necessarily a graphic designer or a muralist, but I knew I wanted to do this route. I was lucky my parents supported me and encouraged me to attend art school. I studied graphic design, and after graduation, I applied everywhere in California and landed a job in North County, San Diego. I spent about three years working in-house. Then, in early 2016 is when I went freelance.
Q: How did you scale your brand and business?
By continually putting myself out there. I was active on social media. A lot of artists like the idea of working for themselves but don’t enjoy the business side of it. I encourage those people to consider working with an agent or partnering with a gallery. I actually enjoy the business side, so I leaned into it through cold emailing, networking, speaking at events. It took about six months to a year of figuring out what the business was going to look like and I started out with a business partner, which made things easier.
Q: What did the early stages look like?
While working in-house, I hosted lettering meetups in San Diego. Those meetups gave me a platform and I had a dedicated Instagram for it where I started selling merch. That gave me the confidence to start a business. I also did small gigs here and there, family and friends would reach out asking to design prints or t-shirts. As artists, we’re always freelancing.
Q: Any tips for growing a creative brand on social media?
I know it can be daunting, but you’ve got to do it. Don’t reinvent the wheel, reuse your content across platforms, just reformat it. That’s where I’ve built community. There are so many awesome creatives out there. I’ve connected with painters all over the country that way, and now some of them help me install murals from Boston to San Diego. Show your work, even if you don’t love it. You might be surprised by the response. What you put out is what you attract. So don’t share a ton of work you don’t like, but also don’t be afraid to post passion projects or even fake ones. You never know where they might lead.
Q: Let’s get real—how much do you charge for your work?
My rates have evolved. I started with a $1,000 minimum, later $2,000, and today my minimum is $5,000. Most of my murals range from $5k to $10k. I’ve done two six-figure murals, that level is rare but incredible. When I first started, I had no real system for pricing and that didn’t work. For me, pricing is based on square footage, currently around $45/sq ft—with adjustments for texture, equipment, difficulty, or rush timelines. For sign-painting or digital file work, it’s about $20/sq ft. Offering clients three options, low, mid, and high is a good strategy. It gives them flexibility and choice.
Q: What kept you going in the early days?
It was simple: I love making art. There was no plan B. I also have a competitive streak, when my design was chosen over others, it pushed me to keep going. Now I'm financially driven, tracking metrics like painting murals in all 50 states (I’m at 32). I compete with myself and see it as fun.
Q: What’s the difference between in-house and agency?
I worked in-house for two cycling apparel brands, designing graphics for fenders, helmets, bells and saw the brand evolve. It gave me insight into the corporate process. Agency-level work offers more variety, but in-house work brings in-depth brand understanding. That early experience benefits me now as a freelancer and working with clients.
Q: How long before you saw profits from your business?
About two years in, momentum picked up. I realized I couldn’t wait for projects, I had to go after them through cold emails and outreach. My top tips for sending out emails: keep them short, ask to schedule a quick call, and always follow up. The follow up is key.
Q: Do both in-person networking and online outreach matter?
Absolutely. Ideally you’d do both. In-person events like Creative Mornings are great for local connections, but online is essential for broader opportunities. A DM could turn into a phone call and long-term friendship, like with an artist I admire in the Bay Area. It never hurts to follow up and build relationships both offline and online.
Q: Is art school still worth it today?
I don't think it's as important anymore. Art school is expensive, but I had a great experience especially learning the technical Adobe skills and building networks. Most of what you learn today is available online—YouTube, courses, social media. I didn’t learn freelancing or salary negotiation in school, I did a lot of unpaid internships. There are pros and cons, but there are many alternatives now.
Q: What was the art school application process like for you?
It was intense. I was rejected by RISD (Rhode Island School of Design) twice before I got into Pratt. In high school, I attended portfolio days, submitting physical pencil drawings and CDs full of my artwork to multiple colleges. I remember we had to do three drawings, one of them had to be a bike and the other two needed to show that you could draw from life. It was a lot on top of SATs and regular school work but the pay off was worth it.
Q: When did you realize art was more than a hobby?
It was early on, my high school focused more on science and math, but I made sure to get art into my schedule. I took AP art and I made that choice because I knew art was my career path.
Q: What message do you have for aspiring artists?
I recently went back to my high school to paint a mural, and it was a really sweet full-circle moment. It meant a lot to be hired by a school that didn’t necessarily value art as much as they could have when I was a student. One senior shared how her parents did not support her creative path and she felt stuck. I told her: take the schooling they offer now, but if you care deeply you will find a way. Work on your art outside your day job, ask for creative projects at work, make time for what matters. Everyone’s path is different, you will get there with commitment and passion.
🔑 Key Takeaways
🎯 The Importance of Business Skills in Creative Careers: Phoebe highlights that succeeding as a freelance artist goes beyond creativity; it requires embracing the business side, including marketing, client management, and cold outreach. Many artists underestimate this, but Phoebe’s enthusiasm for business activities helped her scale effectively. This balance is critical for sustainability in creative entrepreneurship.
📱 Social Media as a Networking and Marketing Tool: Social media platforms serve dual purposes for Phoebe—marketing her work to potential clients and building a trusted network of collaborators nationwide. By recycling content across platforms and engaging actively, she cultivates both community and opportunity, demonstrating social media’s power in modern freelance careers.
💰 Transparent and Thoughtful Pricing Strategies: Phoebe’s pricing evolved from guesswork to a structured formula based on square footage, factoring in complexity, equipment needs, and client behavior. Offering tiered pricing packages allows clients flexibility, making projects more accessible while protecting the artist’s value. This methodical pricing reduces confusion and builds trust.
🔄 Creating Work Beyond Client Requests: When client work is limited or not aligned with an artist’s passion, Phoebe suggests creating “fake” projects to showcase skills and attract ideal clients. This proactive approach maintains momentum, hones creativity, and enhances visibility, highlighting the importance of self-initiated projects in creative careers.
🌐 Combining Digital and In-Person Networking: Phoebe advocates for a hybrid approach to networking, balancing the convenience and reach of online connections with the depth and immediacy of face-to-face interactions. This strategy broadens access while fostering meaningful relationships, crucial for long-term career growth in the arts.
🎓 Reevaluating the Role of Formal Art Education: While Phoebe values the technical training and networking from art school, she acknowledges that formal education is no longer the only or most necessary path due to alternative learning platforms. She warns against accruing debt for education and encourages leveraging affordable resources like YouTube, reflecting a shift in how creative skills are acquired today.
💪 Persistence and Passion as Driving Forces: Phoebe’s story underscores that passion for art and competitiveness drove her through early uncertainties and setbacks, such as art school rejections and freelance challenges. Her advice for emerging artists is to stay committed and creative, finding ways to integrate art into their lives regardless of initial obstacles, reinforcing that career paths in the arts are rarely linear but always achievable with dedication.
📢 Check Out the Full Interview
Watch the full interview with Phoebe Nelson and hear her beautiful journey below or youtube @ainahcommunity.
🌟 Discover Pandr
Explore Phoebe’s work and projects through her mural company, Pandr: www.pandrdesignco.com